Off The Clock Toolbox Talk Podcast

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SEASON 3

SEASON 2

Ironworker, Shawn Underhill, joins Daniel and Karen to talk about his journey through problematic substance use and addiction. From Shawn’s early days smoking pot as a teen in his first construction job, to navigating problematic substance use in camps up north, to using to get through pain, grief, and exhaustion, Shawn demonstrates how recovery is anything but a straight line. Daniel and Shawn discuss how, on average, most people addicted to opioids struggle with that addiction for 15 years, but they do recover, even though it typically takes multiple attempts.

The recurring theme of Shawn’s story is his mom’s constant voice, in her life and death, urging Shawn to access help at Fraser House Society (the host organization of this podcast). And every time he returned, he grew more and more, adding to his toolbox, ultimately creating a life of beauty that he loves.

Shawn’s counsellor, Sam, jumps in at the end and Shawn and Sam give us some insight on what the first few weeks of counselling are like, and what its like to begin the counselling journey. Shawn closes out with a poem he wrote at a very dark time, to cultivate hope for us all.

Off The Clock Toolbox Talk
Men forging health in the unregulated drug crisis, through real f**king talk.
Learn more about the podcast series at TradesPodcast.com.

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The Off The Clock Toolbox Talk Season 2 Sampler serves up select appetizers from Season 2 episodes, combined with house-style transitional music to keep your groove on throughout your day.

The Season 2 Sampler features (in order):

1. Kayle’s Story - Kale Moth, Trevor Botkin

2. Squishy Meat Bags (I Don’t Have Trauma. You Have Trauma) – Jason White, Jonas Watkins, Sabine Sasakura, Karen Janzen

3. Psychedelic Surprise – Mike Mathers, Daniel Snyder

4. Shayne’s Story: The Aftershow – Shayne Taylor, Trevor Botkin, Karen Janzen

5. Rig Life (And Other Tough Work Sites) – Kale Moth, Trevor Botkin

6. Curious AF – Mike Mathers, Daniel Snyder

7. Shayne’s Story: The Aftershow – Shayne Taylor, Trevor Botkin, Karen Janzen

8. Ditch the Tough: Keep the Love – Kat Wahamaa, Daniel Snyder

9. Random Recovery Talk – Kale Moth, Trevor Botkin, Karen Janzen

Special thanks to the BC Sand Stone & Gravel Association for inviting Off the Clock Toolbox Talk to the BCSSGA Conference, and for standing behind our tradespeople in the drug poisoning crisis.

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The conversation continues as Trevor, Shayne and Karen discuss ‘safety is behavioral’; these life-wisdom conversations need to happen in-person, breathing and sharing energy together, preferred where apps, lectures, and protocols fall short. Karen and Trevor confirm this same thread from the Random Recovery Talk episode https://www.tradespodcast.com/s2-ep5 where it emerged that recovery is leadership of self to recruit help. Recovery is not done in isolation; it requires a relational context with other humans, referred to as 'co-regulation'. And recovery is spiritual—however you connect with something meaningful outside yourself.

Shayne creates the metaphor of a toolkit; whatever recovery path you’re on, you’re gathering tools along the way with every experience to put into your toolkit. And we need to access those tools on a regular basis.

Trevor and Shayne discuss the power of Shayne’s confession that “The first lie I ever told myself is that I’m okay,” meaning all the things that brew consciously and subconsciously for years leading up to catastrophic blow-up. The group discuss the difficulties of recruiting help, yet it’s pivotal to moving forward in our own well-being.

The conversation ties up with Shayne’s suggestion of changing the terminology of “rock bottom” to “the point of return”.

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Shayne Taylor, Corporate Director of HSE at The Gisborne Group joins Karen and guest co-host, Trevor Botkin, to talk about his personal experiences with mental health and substance use. Uniquely, Shayne’s adulthood career path fluctuated between the construction trades and psychological care supports in mental health and substance use services, while his own binge drinking, substance use and associated harms carried on for decades. Shayne’s experiences in these two radically different fields ultimately led him to safety work in construction where he’s now a strong advocate for meeting regular people where they’re at, opening the door to better quality of life through human connection.

This episode contains mention of childhood sexual abuse, explicit drug use, and description of an overdose experience.

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Continuing the conversation from “Curious AF”, Daniel and Karen talk with Mike Mathers who demystifies psychedelic therapy and the incredible results of clinical trials ongoing amidst a grey psychedelic market in Canada. Mike warns against covertly accessing psychedelics without clinical supports as psychedelics release undigested emotions that can be terrifying and even damaging if the user has spent a lot of time and effort avoiding undigested emotions that they didn’t know that they had.

Mike discloses his experiences of video game and cannabis addiction as a numbing response to the undigested emotions he had from divorce and loss of connection with his three young children. Mike articulates that when we can’t face painful feelings, they don’t die, they turn into zombies. Psychedelics are medicines of grief and love and help us face the painful feelings, and give us a chance to process them, arriving at self-forgiveness, ultimately allowing ourselves to move forward and grow. Mike points out how its important to “build a Temple of Regret” and visit it often, not to ruminate in the past, but to look, eyes wide open with curiosity, at how past painful experiences have hurt us, and then use that information to help us grow and move into meaning and our calling in life.

Like Karen, you too might be surprised at the unexpected gems and hacks around trauma and unwanted emotions in this episode of Off the Clock Toolbox Talk.

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Therapist Mike Mathers joins Daniel and Karen to talk about his new book coming out in 2024, Curious AF. Mike sets us up to understand how the human mind operates as a social entity that needs to belong to a group, and influences us to operate to avoid shame, particularly childhood shame that we can’t even remember, but that our subconscious still accesses to inform our daily thoughts & decisions.

Mike talks about his common friend who is always there for him, “I’m a Fucking Idiot”, and how we have a relationship with “I’m a Fucking Idiot” and we don’t even know it. Daniel asks if all addictions are driven by shame. Mike says he calls shame “unconscious unworthiness”. He draws a link to feelings as data that provide information about our lives and what’s missing in terms of emotional regulation, social connection and meaning and purpose.

Mike goes on to explain that the antidote to shame is to get curious about it using “I wonder…” questions, whose answer doesn’t matter because you can’t be judgmental and curious at the same time. Curiosity changes what's going on in our mind and body and gets us out of shame.

Follow along with Karen who gets “therapized” in this episode. Early listener reviews have characterized Curious AF as a free half hour of damn good therapy.

Find Mike Mathers and information about his book, Curious AF, at https://www.wellnessevolved.ca.

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Trevor, Kale and Karen drift through some random conversation on subtle aspects of the recovery journey. Kale discusses that recovery isn’t easy, but as you begin to feed yourself, you get strong AF. Trevor remembers how tied he was to his negative identities as a tradesman. Kale shares the energy that is brought to him when he opens his heart to the opportunities that recovery brings, even in the hours right before recording the podcast. Trevor remembers searching out recovery stories when he knew he needed to get off the ride but didn’t know how. He acknowledges that we just need to talk more openly with each other about what’s really going on, and what we’re learning and understanding as men.

Karen shares her emotional expertise: that emotions are just there to help you figure out what’s going on, and what to do about it. Trevor reflects on his frequently asked question, “if we’re so fucking tough, why can’t we talk about our feelings?”

The group discusses Johann Hari’s quote, “The opposite of addiction is not sobriety. The opposite of addiction is connection,” connection to self and others, and wtf is self love? And how do you get it? Trevor brings in the role of spirituality [not religion] in understanding self love.

Karen adds her post-conversation thoughts that recovery is actually about leadership of self. Recovery is social; we don’t recover in isolation. Recovery is vulnerability that transforms into leadership.

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Daniel chats with podcast project partner, Kat Wahamaa from Mom’s Stop the Harm about losing her twenty-five year old son Joseph to the unregulated drug crisis, and about the unintentional and intentional harms that are taking place in Canada, from decision makers in Ottawa to families sitting around their tables at home. Kat points out how the drug poisoning crisis is traumatizing an entire generation of children whose parents have been killed by unregulated drugs, including Joseph’s two young sons.